Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Discussion about maps being used

[edit]

There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:2025 Formula One World Championship about types of map being used there. It would be good to get the views of some more regular F1 editors, as the outcome of any discussion there could affect other future season articles. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Standardising all Formula One driver introductions

[edit]

Hi all,

I am currently standardising all F1 driver introductions to keep a fairly consistent format and opening paragraphs, drawing on any championships (per Lewis Hamilton, Max Verstappen and Fernando Alonso), karting (only FIA World/European Championships) and junior career successes (per Charles Leclerc, Andrea Kimi Antonelli and Nyck de Vries), and making F1 career run-downs more concise with better points of notability, as well as including career statistics and contract status at the end of the intro. Currently keeping the intros neutral but may consider including referenced statements such as "Widely regarded as one of the greatest drivers of all time/of his generation" for drivers such as Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, per corresponding association football articles. Hopefully over time this sort of formatting will extend to other motorsport pages to keep all driver pages clean and concise.

Drivers completed:

Update: All 2024 drivers completed by 9 September 2024, currently working on drivers who competed up to 2015.

Mb2437 (talk) 00:39, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would say as long as WP:LEAD is generally followed articles should naturally be fairly consistent, they don't all have to be identical in terms of structure, especially not when they are in varying states of quality with everything from GA's to articles that are in need of serious improvement. TylerBurden (talk) 20:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The structure of most introductions were an atrocious read prior to the changes made, not concisely breaking down careers with inconsistent detailing in many. Avoided major edits to Hamilton, Verstappen and Alonso, whose pages have been edited thousands of times to a fairly well-balanced form. Many other sports follow a similar structure on all pages. Mb2437 (talk) 20:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure about links of the form [[Formula One drivers from Foo|Fooian racing driver]], as in the lead of Valtteri Bottas. It feels like a bit of an "Easter egg" link to me. DH85868993 (talk) 10:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the link needs mentioning at some point in the intro, that way it does so without making an added point of the history of their nationality in the sport, which isn’t really notable with the exception of Zhou. I think it’s clear that clicking on “Finnish racing driver” leads to a list of successful Finnish racing drivers, rather than no link at all. Mb2437 (talk) 15:14, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree on all counts. A prime example is Antonelli, his article links to Italian Formula One drivers - he isn't a Formula One driver yet. It is an WP:EGG link. And the simple solution is to put "Fooian [former] Formula One driver" and then linking to the article makes perfect sense. For retired drivers and current drivers it is appropriate because it is almost always the most notable series they raced in. The only issue would be for former F1, but still active racers. But then I don't think it is a necessary link in any case, so missing it isn't a big deal. Additionally, in (for example Verstappens article) we can write, "the most successful Dutch Formula One driver, Verstappen has 3 world championships" and link to it in that way. SSSB (talk) 15:30, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could perhaps add "currently competing in Formula One under the Fooian flag for Team" for all, seen on multi-nationality driver pages, but doesn't feel as elegant or concise. The use of "Formula One driver" as opposed to "racing driver, currently [or formerly] competing in Formula One" restricts their racing career to solely Formula One. F1 career should always be mentioned in the lead paragraph, but all have competed elsewhere. Keeping the link isn't that deep really, but many readers will surely be curious to read on about their compatriots, hence why I think the inclusion is important. Mb2437 (talk) 15:56, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"but many readers will surely be curious to read on about their compatriots," I'm not convinced that's true. When people go to (I don't know) Bottas' article, they want to read about Bottas. I would suggest that they would want to read about Finlands history in F1 is when the article talks about it (I.e. "Bottas is the most recent Finnish Grand Prix winner". This kind of sentence is more common at Grands Prix articles) SSSB (talk) 16:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a bit uncomfortable with a "one size fits all" model for these articles, particularly if it's going to be rolled out across every F1 driver. It will suit some articles better than others, and I would be against changing articles which are already well-written. As a side point, there's a bit of overlinking here and there – coaching and management do not need to be linked, for example, and country names are never to be linked. I would also say that I personally don't think linking to a list of racing drivers of whatever nationality is useful. These drivers have practically nothing else in common. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've predominantly been focusing on articles that are not well-written i.e. near enough every article besides the World Champions. The quality and lack of introductory detail made F1 articles far too difficult to navigate. Having a concise career rundown in the introduction should be the norm for F1 articles, a point which so many visit to get a grasp of.
Removed over-linking on the Jos Verstappen page (Netherlands, coached and managed) apart from the Netherlands A1 team, which needs a link there. As far as linking to a list of drivers from various nationalities, it has been the standard on F1 pages for a while, I've been adding it to pages who don't use it for consistency. Mb2437 (talk) 18:21, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Providing it is concise, yes. The introduction is basically to establish notability and give the basics in a nutshell. It probably doesn't mean that a driver's entire career be summarised, and shouldn't include anything that would fail to make him/her notable if that was the peak of what they achieved. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:34, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel as though notability has been followed fairly well on the introductions I've completed thus far; only including FIA Karting Championships, junior career championships/vice-championships, F1 career milestones (teams moved to, maiden wins/poles/podiums, championships), and other major series raced in full-time or won. Full F1 careers have generally been summarised in one paragraph, with two covering drivers with more extensive careers. Mb2437 (talk) 18:57, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed the second link in the lead paragraph of Jos Verstappen to the list of Dutch racing drivers – one is tolerable, but not two. There just seems like a lot of blue in some of these, which can be a bit distracting for some readers. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the case of Jos Verstappen, we have "Dutch former racing driver" all as part of a link. Really, none of that needs linking as all are very common terms. I see we've even got "gearbox" and "bankruptcy" linked (gearbox linked in the lead and the next paragraph) – that's overkill. If we must link to a list of racing drivers from Country X, let's do it in the infobox. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at Talk:Andrea Kimi Antonelli#Requested move 3 September 2024

[edit]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Andrea Kimi Antonelli#Requested move 3 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Failed verification in Template:F1 Drivers Standings

[edit]

@Cerebral726: I do not think it is the case to add failed verification here. Come on. Island92 (talk) 21:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is all the material contained in the table available in the source provided? Cerebral726 (talk) 14:02, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, and there is no source that can provide all that. I have been cheking carefully. This is a system (and the respective Legend in the table) used on Wikipedia, only. Island92 (talk) 14:12, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:V. Then add more sources? It's a complex table, multiple sources is entirely reasonable. If your "system" involves unsourced material on Wikipedia, then it needs to be fixed. Cerebral726 (talk) 14:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More sources? How many? Ten? Each that provides a thing, another a different thing, and so on? I do not think should be the case. However, my opinion was given, no way to keep failed verification for it. Waiting for other user takes. Island92 (talk) 14:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I guess we'll continue to disagree as long as you fully disregard WP:V. Cerebral726 (talk) 14:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This templating has not been productive or useful, but that's besides the point. The resolution to this situation will be to add refs which include (a) all individual race classifications for situations where a DNS/WD has occurred (b) all qualifying classifications and (c) all sprint results. Rather than continuing discussion on the matter, a more speedy resolution would be achieved by adding these sources to the tables. 5225C (talk • contributions) 16:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ridiculous, the templates have alerted users that there is room for improvement on a seemingly well sourced tables/statements, and has resulted in better sourcing overall. Nothing unproductive or useless about that. Do you think the failed verification template should be removed or that I am misusing it somehow? I add plenty of sources to justify my behavior as more than just drive-by templating. Cerebral726 (talk) 17:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I think it should be removed. This has been completely unproductive. If there was genuine concern about a systematic issue in sourcing for season articles it really should have been brought up here where the editors responsible for said systematic issue could have decided on an appropriate course of action. Instead a bunch of articles got templated which ultimately has only diminished their credibility to readers despite their accuracy never being in question. Maybe it complies with the letter of the law in whatever policy or documentation but hardly a common sense way to resolve the issue. I generally agree with your judgement when these sort of things crop up but this hasn't really been the most effective path to resolution. 5225C (talk • contributions) 17:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I'm not sure who is putting in those sources for all those results tables, they've been around for years and I don't think it makes sense to try and go back to tell someone to fix their work they did years ago. Why not have the community of editors who care about this stuff see that someone has tagged something as needing improvement, and do so if they feel so inclined. There is no deadline to these things and "diminishing credibility" is something we as editors shouldn't worry about when we are trying to alert the community there is an area to be addressed. Cerebral726 (talk) 19:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it has increased Wikipedia's credibility. It highlights that Wikipedians are dedicated to making sure that Wikipedia's content is properly sourced, and to improving articles more generally. What has been completely unproductive is this discussion in which some editors seem to believe that some content does not need to be sourced, flying completely in the face of one of the core policies: WP:V. SSSB (talk) 05:38, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both entirely fair and reasonable perspectives. I do not intend to suggest that the issue should not be rectified, only that this was not the most efficient way to go about it. I will make a start on it tonight, probably while watching free practice. 5225C (talk • contributions) 05:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your effort. Now, if you want, I can provide sources that are needed for the table throughout the race weekend and after it. For example, when the "Final Starting Grid" is published (normally two hours before the race start), I can add it. Island92 (talk) 18:38, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That said, I think "Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile" can only be wikilinked once, per section, as we do for the all entry lists in the Entries table. Basically, the same can be done for stewards names. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Derek Warwick and so on are wikilinked more than once. Island92 (talk) 18:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Use of team colours

[edit]

Just starting a discussion about the potential use of team colours in both the Entries section of individual seasons and current F1 driver infobox headers (per NFL players). Could be nice aesthetic detail, even if not wholly necessary. F1 teams have used official colours, listed on the F1 website, for at least a decade now. Mb2437 (talk) 19:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, NFL and F1 colours are like apples and oranges. F1 "official" colours are based on liveries. They are a colour which matches the livery so that viewers can easily make the connection. Liveries are based on sponsers (with some exceptions) and can change from year to year. NFL colours are permenant (for the most part) and do not change. For example, the Cincinnati Bengals are black and orange because it matches the logo, which matches the name (Bengal tiger). McLaren are orange for marketing reasons, and less than 10 years ago they were dark grey. Using colours for historical purposes is therefore a big no-no, because the colours have no historical significance, and I would even go as far as to suggest that it would imply the McLaren of 10 years ago and the McLaren of today are seperate entities (which is, of course, nonsense).
As for using the colours for current purposes, for example in driver infoboxes. Firstly, how would this look? Because in NFL infoboxes (e.g. Bengals player Joe Burrow), where he is identified as a Bengals player operates as a header, for our infoboxes it doesn't. So in our infoboxes the aesthetic would not be an improvement, it would be messy. Secondly, what is the point? It would serve zero purpose. And it would require complicated superflusous code which would deter editors from updating it (becuase they don't understand the code), so it would be a net negative (and before you hit me with "NFL articles do not have this problem", {{Infobox NFL biography}} has team colours embeded in it, so they don't have this problem. As F1 team colours are not consistent across a team history (with a couple of exceptions), this would not be possible for F1 articles).
All in all, strong oppostion on all counts. SSSB (talk) 21:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One&oldid=1246446172"