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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 02:09, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Silvia Fresco

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Silvia Fresco (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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No evidence of notability. A claim by the author that Fellowship of the American College of Surgeons meets criteria 3 of WP:PROF is false. FACS is a qualification open to all qualified surgeons after 12 months of successful practice in a locale and simply requires payment of the requisite fee. Without that claim, there is nothing else here to support a claim to notability. Fails WP:GNG  Velella  Velella Talk   17:07, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions.  Velella  Velella Talk   17:07, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.  Velella  Velella Talk   17:07, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If so, every organization is required some kind of payment, even AAAS. Yet, we keep those articles. If this article fails WP:PROF then every other article that lists an academic as fellow of whatever, should be deleted.--Biografer (talk) 18:44, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete There is no claim of notability here. Per this source, the American College of Surgeons has 82,000 members. WP:PROF #3 is clear that the organization needs to be "a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association", a standard that is not met here. In the absence of in-depth sources showing that Dr. Fresco is notable, the mere fact of being a Fellow of the American College of Surgeons meets no standard of notability. Alansohn (talk) 20:20, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Alansohn: Correct me if I am wrong, but we can also say that AAAS who employs 10 million academics, is also a not so "prestigious". Our guideline at WP:PROF 3 says that: The person has been an elected member of a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association (e.g., a National Academy of Sciences or the Royal Society) or a fellow of a major scholarly society which reserves fellow status as a highly selective honor (e.g., Fellow of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers). Yet, because it doesn't say only, the confusion arises as which ones are prestigious. For example, we have articles on Guggenheim Fellows, but it doesn't state in WP:PROF #3 criteria. Not to mention, majority of academics have no so notable societies and prestigious ones. We do require to list them in the awards section as long as they are not in-house awards (or fellowships) as in such case. However, I personally don't know the difference between a prestigious society, and not so much. To me, a fellowship is a fellowship.
    • Returning to the FACS: Every person there is also elected as a fellow, they don't automatically appointed, which contradicts statement by @Velella: FACS is a qualification open to all qualified surgeons after 12 months of successful practice in a locale and simply requires payment of the requisite fee. The have elevated, valued, all kinds of fellowship ranks, which are no different from IEEE for example.--Biografer (talk) 00:34, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • According to one of the primary sources, the subject is also a member of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery, the Society of Laparoendoscopic Surgeons, and the American Society of Breast Surgeons. The problem is, is that with FACS, I can retrieve the information with ease, and the source is good when it comes to birth year. The other societies that I found she is a member of, requires membership, which I don't have. So, in conclusion, she is notable, but Wikipedia just don't want to buy the proof. :(--Biografer (talk) 00:43, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Biografer, if you're trying to use Wikipedia:Notability (academics) as the pathway to notability, it appears that you are mistaken. The guideline refers to academics, which are defined as "someone engaged in scholarly research or higher education; academic notability refers to being known for such engagement." Dr. Fresco is a physician, not an academic
        Criteria 3 states that "The person has been an elected member of a highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association (e.g., a National Academy of Sciences or the Royal Society) or a fellow of a major scholarly society which reserves fellow status as a highly selective honor (e.g., Fellow of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers)." Dr. Fresco has not been elected to a highly selective society, a standard that the American College of Surgeons does not meet. This is intended to be a selective subgroup, while being an FACS means that you are a surgeon like virtually all surgeons.
        Criteria 3 doesn't apply and it's clear that none of the criteria are even close. The laundry list of memberships does little to support a claim and if the FACS is being used exclusively for the ease of access, that's a weak claim of notability. If Dr. Fresco had extensive in-depth reliable and verifiable sources talking about her as a surgeon, you'd be on far firmer ground. Alansohn (talk) 22:58, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 23:13, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:54, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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