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Disambiguation

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Georgia (U.S. state) Disambig‑class

This disambiguation page is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Georgia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Georgia (U.S. state)Wikipedia:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)Template:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)Georgia (U.S. state) articles Disambig This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) To-do: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Crooked Creek (Georgia), Ed Defore Sports Complex, Audery Mill Creek, More (Georgia)... More (U.S.)... Assess : Rate articles from Unassessed Georgia (U.S. state) articles and Unknown-importance Georgia (U.S. state) articles. Citing sources : Unreferenced Georgia (U.S. state) articles Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category. Geographical coordinates : more Georgia (U.S. state) articles missing geocoordinate data Infobox : Georgia (U.S. state) articles without infoboxes Map : Wikipedia requested maps in Georgia (U.S. state) Photo : Wikipedia requested photographs in Georgia (U.S. state) Stubs : Work on stubs in articles in Georgia (U.S. state) stubs, Georgia (U.S. state) radio station stubs, Georgia (U.S. state) road stubs and Georgia (U.S. state) geography stubs. Other : *Deletion sorting: Please see the collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Georgia (U.S. state) - compiled by WikiProject Deletion sorting Help out with articles placed in Category:Georgia (U.S. state) articles needing attention Notability: Articles with notability concerns, listed at WikiProject Notability Tag the talk pages of Georgia (U.S. state)-related articles with the {{WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)}} banner. Get Georgia (U.S. state) to a featured article quality standard

Georgia (country) Disambig‑class

This disambiguation page is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Georgia and Georgians on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Georgia (country)Wikipedia:WikiProject Georgia (country)Template:WikiProject Georgia (country)Georgia (country) articles Disambig This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Discussions regarding the titles of the articles Georgia, Georgia (country) and Georgia (U.S. state) should be held at Talk:Georgia.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Move logs: Georgia Georgia (country) Georgia (U.S. state) Discussions: RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Not moved, 19 August 2013, Discussion RM, Georgia (U.S. state) → Georgia, U.S., Withdrawn, 24 July 2014, Discussion RM, Georgia (U.S. state) → Georgia (state), Not moved, 23 November 2016, Discussion RM, Georgia (U.S. state) → Georgia (American state), Not moved, 5 January 2018, Discussion RM, Georgia (U.S. state) → Georgia (state), Not moved, 6 April 2019, Discussion RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Not moved, 11 July 2021, Discussion RM, Georgia → Georgia (disambiguation), Procedural close, 17 January 2022, Discussion RM, Georgia → Georgia (disambiguation), Speedy close, 24 April 2022, Discussion RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Not moved, 29 September 2023, Discussion Older discussions: RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Opposed, 2003 RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, Opposed, 6 May 2004, Discussion (Poll) RM, Georgia (country) → Republic of Georgia, Opposed, 23 May 2005, Discussion RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, No consensus, 5 July 2006, Discussion RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, No consensus, 11 July 2007, Discussion RM, Georgia (country) → Georgia, No consensus, 15 March 2008, Discussion

The "Georgia" move discussions in a nutshell: On Wikipedia, the placing of a word in parentheses in the title of an article is primarily used as a method of disambiguation, with the parenthesised word usually being a set that the article's subject is a part of. The basic debate has been whether the Eurasian country should be the primary topic, and therefore does not need any parenthesised word in the title. Those in favor of such a move often argue that internationally recognised countries should take precedence over sub-national units like the U.S. state, though there are other suggested reasons for primary topic. Some proponents of a move have also argued that the current failure to recognize Georgia (the country) as the primary topic displays a U.S.-centric bias. Opponents of such a renaming note that under Wikipedia's guidelines, the primary topic can be determined based on which one is significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings as well as which one is more important or significant. They generally dispute that the U.S. state of Georgia is any less important; in fact, given the significantly greater size of its population, economy (especially its film industry), geographical area, and main airport, many argue the U.S. state is actually more important despite sharing some of its sovereignty with the United States federal government and not having a seat in the United Nations. They have also argued in the past that since the Eurasian country was (at the time of the above linked discussions) being actually slightly less searched for than the U.S. state, the former should not be the primary topic. Based on all of the foregoing factors, some contend the U.S. state should be the primary topic with no qualifier in its title. Some opponents have also argued that having Georgia as a disambiguation page is a better way to catch cases where an article contains wikilinks to the bare name "Georgia" that should be disambiguated.

Archives

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

I know many, many people will bash me, but is there some reason for disambig page besides the higher population? We are disambiguing a 5000 year history country with two times the hits with a crappy province. --BrownGez (talk) 22:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is there some reason why people aren't willing to read the past discussions (or even the "nutshell" summary)? —David Levy 17:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

other than laziness, ignorance or the growing trend of pointless squabbling? characterizing a US state as "crappy province" should be your biggest clue to one of the first two, at least. Fhue (talk) 06:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm going to be a pain as well but in the other direction. I did read the In a Nutshell bit, and as an American, of course I think of the State first. Moreover, for consistency, the only state that I can find that does not exist at its primary name is Georgia. Washington, who most people actually would think of DC or the first president first, goes to the state. New York, which most people think of the city first, goes to the state. As people have pointed out, there are certainly other countries that are found at disambiguation pages. So I'm going to be a jerk and suggest Georgia, on the English language wikipedia, actually goes to the state. Not because it's better, but because it's more consistent. I'd imagine those Anglophiles would not be too happy if I suggested Essex pointed directly to a disambiguation page instead of their beloved county, when it is clear that most people looking for Essex (on the basis of population of the combined entities) are looking for a different Essex. But, then every English county would no longer be located directly on the primary article and the Queen would not be amused. CSZero (talk) 14:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We are not amused. Rreagan007 (talk) 14:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Let's have another poll! Polls are fun, and there have been polls in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 but nothing so far in 2009. 76.117.1.254 (talk) 00:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

2009's poll is well over-due. DoubleBlue (talk) 04:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hear hear, we're way behind schedule, I haven't called anyone "an uneducated American" or "East European nationalist" all year. Also, Rreagan007, I'm going to have to take issue with your Essex analogy, are you suggesting that the only people who search Wikipedia for geographical areas are people living in them? I better nominate Atlantis and Liancourt Rocks for deletion. Personally I'm completely unaware of any Essex bar the British one and I've come across references to that one countless times, even though it is on the other side of the world from me. Notability is clearly far better established with that one. Ought we cater to some US county full of hill-billies and uneducated Americans (now I just have to find an Eastern European debate... :) ) who spend their free time googling their own local government subdivision? +Hexagon1 13:40, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just for the record, it was not I who said that. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

... and French speakers, and German speakers, and Greek speakers (who'd rather call Sakartvelo "Georgia" istead of the old Greek name "Iviria" (Iberia)) and so on. Basically there is a standard in all these languages, for a reason that I fail to understand to call Sakartvelo "Georgia". Why? Apart from considering St. George protector of Sakartvelo, Sakartvelo never made any claim that they are the "real" Georgia and not the US state. They basically accepted the international situation, in which their state is called "Georgia".

What they specifically DON'T like though is to be called Gruzins and their country Gruzinya using Russian words. So basically if US Georgians want to solve this, it's simple: English is your leanguage: stop calling Sakartvelo "Georgia" and start calling it "Sakartvelo". Why did you call it Georgia in the first place I find hard to imagine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.35.173 (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you are right. However, English WP needs to cater to English speaking Americans too :p The thing boils down to whether an English-speaking USA guy will recognize (or probably tolerate) Georgia as a country across the Atlantic. It seems not! 118.90.85.8 (talk) 04:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Don't vote again. Americans are only going to vote against such a move because they're the greater number however ignorant. Wikipedia isn't a democracy thank fuck and it should dumb itself down for American users. I'm sick of seeing imperial units (feet, ounces, etc.) used in articles. Remove all such mentions even if they are used with metric units. Similarly instances of 'American news' speech like "London, England" and other ignorant phrases need to go. And an historic country certainly takes priority over a region or province of another country.--Xania ^talk 22:28, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wow - how eloquent, and especially the "thank fuck" part! You're really an inspiration :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.70.181.108 (talk • contribs) 00:47, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Considering the Wikipedia is hosted in Florida and largely managed by Jimbo Wales, an American, I do not foresee what you suggest as feasible. I too am deeply puzzled when I see "George is twenty-three cubits and four furlongs high and lives 9³⁵/₅₄₃ leagues that way", but all you can do is add metric units where-ever you see they have been omitted. While Wikipedia is not a democracy, were it a dictatorship and knowing where Wikipedia is hosted and by whom, what system of measurement (and which Georgia) do you think would be given preference? +Hexagon1 13:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Given that the country of Georgia doesn't even use the word "Georgia" as the name of the country in it's own language, I can't see how it has any claim to being the primary user. On the other hand, the state of Goergia is English-speaking, and has about twice the population of the country, I think the state has a good claim on being the primary topic in its own language. In fact, the Georgian language article for the state is at ka:ჯორჯია, which appears to be Georgian for "Georgia"! So if the Georgian language article for the state doesn't have to be DABbed, why in the world should the English language articel be DABbed? As such, I'm serioulsy considering proposing that the state be the primary topic, something that has apparently not been proposed before. - BilCat (talk) 03:33, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

is with the articles about Memphis (the US state won that one). I fear that many of the links to the US state then were due to automatically generated articles about minor localities in the USA. Nonetheless I maintain the proper destination for Georgia is for the dab or the former SSR. 118.90.20.3 (talk) 11:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't a US state called "Memphis" so how would automatically generated articles have linked to "Memphis"? --96.32.132.83 (talk) 00:07, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please try to give a charitable interpretation. Memphis USA vs Memphis Egypt, as can be easily seen... 118.90.35.40 (talk) 11:14, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've just read all the discussions but I'm still confused as to why a country whose official name is Georgia is disambiguated with a state whose official name is not Georgia but rather the State of Georgia. (I'm not from either them btw). This is a disambiguation of one official name conflicting with one name in parlance. (cf. Ireland). If you're looking for Georgia the state you have to 'go twice'. This page and then click the link which takes you to page name that is neither the official name nor the common name. Ditto for Georgia. If Georgia the country was here, people looking for the State of Georgia would still have to do that extra click anyway, but those looking for a country will find it. This looks like a compromise that helps no one.

Here a question: is there any other country whose official name is the same as the commonly spoken name that doesn't have its own page? Macgroover (talk) 17:29, 16 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To answer your question, I can think of three right off the top of my head: Ireland, China, and Macedonia. I thought you said that you had read all of the discussion. Either this is not true or you have a very poor memory, for if you had then you would have read this being discussed several times already. In addition, the argument you made in the first paragraph has been made before... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.138.245.200 (talk) 14:02, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The official (English) the official name of China is "The People's Republic of China", and the official name of Macedonia is "The Republic of Macedonia" so two of your 'three' off the top of your head are *not* the official names, so perhaps it's not a poor memory issue as you assert. The official English name of Georgia is "Georgia". ( I will concede that Ireland is the official name of The Republic of Ireland, but this is a very different case whereby the country is named from the island on which is resides - in fact all the three examples you give are countries that essentially correspond geographically to the area which causes the disambiguation, and the Republic of Ireland is a commonly used name to refer to Eire - on top of which the word Ireland is the official name of 2 things whereas Georgia is only the office name of the country but not the state. ). I'll express my question more carefully: is there any other country whose (unique) official name is the same as the commonly spoken name yet lands you to a disambiguation page? () Macgroover (talk) 17:48, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am not the above IP, but please (Macgroover) do not take that as an insult. Indeed most ideas have been discussed to death, and the pages are probably just waiting for enough interested people. Most of the existing readers on both sides of the debate are also tired to repeating :D 118.90.57.67 (talk) 23:47, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(Feel free to edit this. Perhaps this section can be spun off to a subpage or the Georgia talk header? Also, can someone go through the "Substantial discussions" 1/2, 1/11, 2/6, 2/14, 2/16 and index them?)

References are in the format Archive no./section no. The enumeration of this list is not intended to indicate the strength or importance of the points but simply to make references to this list easier. Points may be repeated depending on the context in which they appear in the archive.

1. Pro country
   1. "Georgia" in English (1/1 Irpen, Carl Kenner WP:CSB, 1/3, 1/4, 3/6 and talks about but does not mention WP:CSB, 3/4), US centrism (1/13).
   2. WP:NC general audience: the US state is a specialist topic. (3/4)
   3. Raises status of US state to sovereign state. (3/4)
   4. English WP is out of step. (1/7)
   5. WP:IAR (2/12)
2. Pro US state
   1. Economy, population etc. larger., country is obscure. (2/9, 3/1)
   2. "There would be no net benefit from the proposed move". (3/3)
   3. "Georgia" in English (1/3, 1/4, 3/6, 2/11), more US readers (1/1 StarryEyes, Raggaga, 4.89.243.64 and more)
   4. "On an English-language wikipedia, an English-language jurisdiction with a larger population should not be subservient to a country that has only been independent for 15 years and doesn't speak English. A disambiguation page is an appropriate compromise." (1/1 Kirjtc2)
3. Other (for either side or none)
   1. Notability, traffic data, Google (1/5, 1/12, 2/5, 2/10, 2/11, 3/4)
   2. "Georgia" in English. (1/1 raggaga, 1/3, 1/4, 1/15)
   3. WP:IAR (2/12)
   4. WP:NC titles not based on subjects' importance. (2/11 agrees, 2/14 disagrees, 3/4, 3/7)
   5. Comparable cases: Macedonia, Luxembourg, Ireland, Turkey, China, Formosa (compared with Argentina), San Marino. (1/1 Llundun, 1/17, 2/2, 3/6, 3/7, 3/8 touched at 3/4)
   6. WP:NC common name. (3/6)
   7. WP:DAB is (just) a guideline. (2/14)
   8. Leave it as it is (2/13), dead horse. (3/6 talks about but does not mention WP:LETGO)
   9. Hatnotes etc. (2/8)
4. Substantial discussions 1/2, 1/11, 2/6, 2/14, 2/16 No Consensus

As an aside, this debate has been going on for about five years now. 118.90.57.67 (talk) 00:38, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]