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→‎Beaujolais: How about a compromise idea to avoid redundancy
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Thanks for your work on Beaujolais. However, there is one important issue still at hand. According to the [[WP:WIAGA|GA criteria]], direct quotations ''must'' be, cited directly after the punctuation each time they appear. One citation in a paragraph for two quotations (even if it's from the same source) doesn't cut it. Quotes are the only thing that always requires immediate attribution through a citation. If you want to include several quotes in a single sentence, one cite will do. But if you have multiple separate sentences each with a quote, you have to cite each sentence. It's not negotiable. [[User:VanTucky|'''Van''']][[User talk:VanTucky|<span style="color:#FF4F00">'''Tucky'''</span>]] 18:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your work on Beaujolais. However, there is one important issue still at hand. According to the [[WP:WIAGA|GA criteria]], direct quotations ''must'' be, cited directly after the punctuation each time they appear. One citation in a paragraph for two quotations (even if it's from the same source) doesn't cut it. Quotes are the only thing that always requires immediate attribution through a citation. If you want to include several quotes in a single sentence, one cite will do. But if you have multiple separate sentences each with a quote, you have to cite each sentence. It's not negotiable. [[User:VanTucky|'''Van''']][[User talk:VanTucky|<span style="color:#FF4F00">'''Tucky'''</span>]] 18:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
:Hey Van Tucky, I appreciate your time. But looking at the GA criteria, it says that (2b) ''"at minimum, provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons" which I have done. Every shred of information in that article is cited and attributable to an inline citation. I do not see "redundancy" as a characteristic of a good article which would be the case if the same cite is added to one line, followed by the next to two to three lines that are also sourced by the same footnote. As a compromise, I would be willing to add a "hidden text" pointing out that the source for the quote can be found on the next line. Would that be acceptable? [[User:Agne27 |Agne]][[Special:Contributions/Agne27|<sup>Cheese</sup>]]/[[User Talk:Agne27|<sup>Wine</sup>]] 18:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:26, 24 March 2008

Welcome Wiki-Winos! Please direct your responses to my sub-page User talk:Agne27/Wiki-Winos and I will be sure to include them in a future Wine Project Newsletter.

If you came here with comments about the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements), all you every need to know about how I might reply back can be found at User:Agne27/City, State convention.

The Wine Advocate

Updated DYK query On 14 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Wine Advocate, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 14:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

German wine regions

Thanks for your work creating articles on Germany's wine regions. The information was sorely needed and you've done a great job. — AjaxSmack 04:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well thank you. Most of the credit should go to User:Tomas e but I see that you already dropped him a note. :) AgneCheese/Wine 21:34, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi don't know if that has an article yet but I thought you might be interested in a new page I patrolled List of Quebec wineries. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 17:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm there is no Quebec wine wine article yet. It is certainly on the list (After a British Columbia wine which is a tad more prominent in the Canadian wine industry). Though overall, I wonder about the notability and usefulness of this list. If wiki links were added they would all undoubtedly be red. It just seems like a directory style listing. Admittedly, I don't know if I would be the best to put a prod or AfD on here since I've already made my opinions known on WP:WINEGUIDE. AgneCheese/Wine 21:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well nobody knows better than you!!! Do what ever you think is best, perhaps if you did create a Quebec wine page the list could be merged and perhaps only the most notable wines included perhaps ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 17:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I will try to gather material for a potential Quebec wine article, but at this point, I think it would be easier to gather material for a more general Alcoholic beverages of Quebec including the whole deal of what is produced there (beers, ciders, wines etc.). Naturally, Quebec will never be a big producer of wine because of the climate, but this does not proscribe small productions of very good wines, even red ones. This is what we have seen for the past 10 years or so. -- Mathieugp (talk) 15:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
While I can't speak about Quebec beers, ciders and spirits, I do know that there is enough reliable sources to make at least a start class article on Quebec wine (Like Ontario, I know that they have a sizable icewine industry and have done a bit with cool climate hybrids). While they might not be big, Quebec wine is certainly interesting. AgneCheese/Wine 17:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Job well done

Great work on the article Wines of Calabria- a region of good wines little known outside of Calabria itself. At best, some people have tried the Ciro', so it's great to find a well written article that expands on other varieties. Please keep up the great work- I am looking forward to reading other articles you might have started about lesser known wine regions. Dionix (talk) 18:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why thank you. Eventually we'll get to nearly all Italian wine regions, it is just a work in progress. Wines of Sicily is high on the to do list. AgneCheese/Wine 21:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Advice about image tagging

Hi Agne. I've found these little château ID cards from the 30s, and have inserted two of them so far, Image:Ausone 1931 chateau card.JPG, Image:Cantemerle 1931 chateau card.JPG but I'm not sure about the most appropriate tags they ought to have. Even though they're at least 76 years old, are they maybe not old enough to be public domain? I opted for fair use logo.. You think this works or would you recommend a different approach? And do you they're appropriate for the articles? MURGH disc. 18:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well they are certainly interesting and worth having in the article. Unfortunately, I'm not well versed enough in all the copyright technicalities. I think your fair use idea is probably a good route but you may want to ask at Wikipedia:Image copyright help desk to get, hopefully, a more knowledgeable answer. AgneCheese/Wine 21:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK thanks, I'll leave a question there and leave it at just a few of them for now. MURGH disc. 21:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Château Cantemerle

Updated DYK query On 17 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Château Cantemerle, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 10:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New South Wales wine

Updated DYK query On 17 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article New South Wales wine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 16:35, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

an AOC

Hi. I boldly moved out one of the Bxd AOCs I've been tinkering with, Haut-Médoc AOC, thinking it's relatively close to the format of info and refs I'll be able to put out. Please take a look, since I'm sure it can be structured better, and I'd love pointers for the forthcoming ones. Not sure this one's an obvious candidate for hooks and a DYK  ;^) MURGH disc. 22:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I'm going through the B class wine articles at the moment but I'll take a look sometime tonight. AgneCheese/Wine 22:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update I took a look at the article, added a small history blurb with a DYK hook. I like the layout and idea that you are going with on this sub AOCs. I really like the table with the classified estates and Cru Bourgeois. Looks very sharp. I think as you get out to the more obscure AOCs, it probably would be best to make one major article with mentioning of the smaller ones and redirect them to that article. If you have enough content to make more than a stub, then there should probably be an article. But if it is only going to be a stub, best to consolidate it. AgneCheese/Wine 03:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. Nice image and history insert. Yes, I think I worked out a hiearchy (for the most obviously small ones anyway) and play with how "mediums" such as Listrac and Moulis do on their own. Cheers, MURGH disc. 04:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shirazi wine

Updated DYK query On 18 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Shirazi wine, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 11:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we'll see if that doesn't bring in a few attempts at distortion to the article. :-) A strong and to some perhaps controversial, but I hope solidly referenced statement. Tomas e (talk) 11:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We will need to keep an eye on it to prevent any nationalism get in the way of encyclopedic integrity. It is a great article, well grounded in good sources. AgneCheese/Wine 17:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Newsletter

Hey, I've commented on the B/GA proposals on the project talk. But don't consider those my newsletter recommendations, I want to take some time to review all the B-class ones and refine my picks. I'll get back to you with them asap (not like last time). Thanks Agne, VanTucky 20:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cool! AgneCheese/Wine 20:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done!

I wanted to let you know that I finished my interview. With literally hours to spare. Let me know if there's anything else, or if I should cover some points in more or less detail. It was a fun bit of text to do: thanks for inviting me to do it! --ESP (talk) 01:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why thank you! AgneCheese/Wine 03:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you could advise

If you have a moment, I went and did this odd article-list-thing, since I think it is sort of encyclopedic and ought to be freely available, I'm not sure where it fits, not even sure what the best title would be. You have a suggestion for that? For now I just have it userfied: User:Murgh/Alexis Lichine's classification of Bordeaux wine.. MURGH disc. 03:29, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, that is a toughie. I agree that it is very encyclopedic and Lichine's alternative classification is probably the most notable alt-classification there is. However I don't know if the "non-wine geeky" community of Wikipedia will grasp that and I do fret the possibility of a tough AfD battle if it was posted as is. My suggestion (and I hate to recommend more work since you've already put a lot into this article) is to reshape the article as Criticism of the Bordeaux wine classification (or something similar) and include Lichine's alternative as a sub section with maybe a reference (though not a full table) to some of the other notable wine writer's list (Parker's, Broadbent and I think Peppercorn has one). This article could function as a splinter from the main 1855 classification article. Lord knows there is enough reliable sources about the criticisms of the 1855 list out there to make an article that is AfD-proof. AgneCheese/Wine 03:20, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I think a criticism article is certainly warranted by abundant RS, definitely a juicy one to compile and construct, but (from the slice of sources I've been by) such an article would span the full 150 years and warrant some hugeness.. *ugh* Anyway, an article passing by AL's Bdxclass ought to lead on to a Main article: Alexis.. and considering the sources I do have (although a bit heavy-relying on Prial) I think it merits a WP-place. It would surprise me enormously if consensus found it shy of WP:N in an AFD. And, I think shockingly, the actual list is nowhere to be found on internet, so I'm gonna follow my gut and zeal and go public. At any rate if it should end in a bad AFD I can always userfy and continue like you suggest.

BTW I have Peppercorn's published ranking/musings (as of 1991 anyway), and he tackles it quite differently, like using the word "perhaps" a lot, and keeps it short, so that could easily become a section in the Peppercorn article. This one of course doesn't belong in Alexis Lichine.  ;^) MURGH disc. 12:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the result of Afd campaign would be "no consensus", so why not give it a try? --Doopdoop (talk) 21:58, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haut-Médoc (AOC)

Updated DYK query On 20 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Haut-Médoc (AOC), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 13:52, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:WINE newsletter

The Wine Project Newsletter!
Issue XI - February 21st, 2008

In this edition:

  • News & Notes - Every American Viticultural Area now has an article! Keeping up with the B class wine articles and find out which start class article of top importance was viewed almost 43,000 times between Dec-Jan.
Plus, find out which wine related Did you knows helped to dispel the myths around the Shiraz grape's origins and which Bordeaux wine chateau was a last minute addition to the Bordeaux Wine Official Classification of 1855-not without some controversy.
Also, what wine articles have the most potential to reach Good article status?
  • Wiki-Winos - Meet User:EvanProdromou! Evan who? Well let just say that another "wiki-wino" has come out the closet to say Hi and share what his project Vinismo can do to help Wikipedia's wine articles.
  • Wiki wine articles on the Web - Guess which prominent wine personality thinks that Wikipedia is one of the best wine resources on the web? Also find out who thinks our Mission grape article is lacking and how our Plavac Mali article cleared up some confusion about the grape's relationship to Zinfandel. Plus, was Mick Jagger really singing about Sommeliers in the Stone's song Beast of Burden?
This newsletter is sent to those listed under Participants on the Wine Project page. If you wish to no longer receive this newsletter please include Decline newsletter next to your name on the Participant list.
If you have any Wikipedia wine related news, announcements or suggestions drop a note in the Comments/Suggestion area of Wikipedia:WikiProject Wine/Newsletter.

Still working on Toscana article? I'll get some books out of the library and try to help! I want to get it to B and then GA. --Charleenmerced Talk 07:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh feel free. I have a couple other big articles on my plate (Like a revision of the Cabernet Sauvignon article). I am more than happy to let your work your magic like with Carmenere and Tempranillo. I'll keep and eye and try to clarify things when I can. AgneCheese/Wine 07:45, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, my family is from Tuscany and I still go there every year in Summer, so if I can be of any help just ask, and I'll do my best :) --BodegasAmbite (talk) 09:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question

You seem to know a lot about wine, so I'd like to ask a question. Wine, made from grape, is highly versatile in flavor. Is it possible to use any other fruits to produce a drink with such a wide range of flavor, or is it something only grape can do? I am aware of fruit wines but I got an impression that they are very limited in versatility. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:22, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the nice words. :) The Grape article is sorely lacking a type of "physiology"/components section to speak to this (on a long list of to-dos) but grapes are unique from other fruits in their ability to produce all these different flavors in wine. While there are elements (namely how it expresses terroir) that are not fully understood there are some identifiable components (found mostly in grape skins with a few in the sugars) that are large contributors to a wine's potential flavors--namely phenols, methoxypyrazines, monoterpenes and mercaptans. The pyrazine "green bell" flavor compound is one, geraniol is responsible for some floral aromas in Riesling and Gerties, megastigmatrienone produces some tobacco and spice notes in red wines, etc. While some of these elements do exist in other fruits/vegetables, the combinations and amount present in wine grapes as well how they interact during the maceration and fermentation process are unique. AgneCheese/Wine 13:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Images

I didn't see a link to the VP discussion, so if you wanted me to chime I'd be happy to do it. The Cat project is more hit and miss, but the firm consensus currently at the Dog project is that galleries in dog breeds are a strict no-no, except where there is great variation in type within a breed and there isn't enough space in the text to house all the images. I personally removed many dog and cat galleries, and I can count the number of dog galleries left on one hand. Besides, excess images in one class of article is not an excuse for excess elsewhere. VanTucky 20:50, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just saw the link. Again, as a result of my edits and the ensuing talk consensus (it was rather uncontroversial), dog articles should only have galleries in very special cases. VanTucky 20:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I appreciate the info and your time. :) AgneCheese/Wine 23:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations on your DYK nomination!

Updated DYK query On 24 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Château Pape Clément, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congratulations and keep up the good work! Ruhrfisch ><>°° 22:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alexis Lichine's classification of Bordeaux wine

Updated DYK query On 25 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Alexis Lichine's classification of Bordeaux wine, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 04:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Henri Enjalbert

Updated DYK query On 25 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Henri Enjalbert, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 19:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Catbook

Would Mr. Tabbers like to be in my Catbook, a frivolous user-space endeavor?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 00:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

LOL. I'm sure he would. :) How cute. AgneCheese/Wine 01:44, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done.[1]--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 02:10, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cabernet Sauvignon DYK

Updated DYK query On 26 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cabernet Sauvignon, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 19:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Updated DYK query On February 28, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Pierre Galet, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Well done, well done again. Have we ever had 100 DYKs on one specific topic? Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 06:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ummmm.....I don't know. But I'll sure try. :) AgneCheese/Wine 17:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, we're closer than I thought. Only a couple more to go. :) AgneCheese/Wine 01:01, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Academy

Hi Agne. I appreciate your enthusiasm and interest in this project, and I'm going to definitely raise this option when I go to the Columbia Free Culture Meeting tonight. Though I'm not sure if an alcohol topic would be OK with the university, when most of the students will probably be under 21. And, I'm a little skeptical of your numbers above, because people tend to be interested in specific topics in the Humanities (authors, books, artistic movements), rather than the academic discipline itself. But your willingness to help with sources, etc., definitely will count in the Wine Project's favor.--Pharos (talk) 20:14, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. Thanks for the reply. :) AgneCheese/Wine 03:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The March 2008 issue of the WikiProject Good Articles Newsletter is ready! Dr. Cash (talk) 05:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DYK expansion check

Hi Agne, could you please take a look at List of tributaries of Larrys Creek, specifically its expansion here diff? I was wondering if it had been expanded 5x but had no idea how to figure that based on text vs. total size (it is not 5x based on file size). I have a nice hook to nominate it for DYK already thought up, but figured I would check with you first. Thanks in advance for your help, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 06:02, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's close enough that I think with a strong hook it should be feature. On Feb 19th, before you started your expansion it had 1,184 bytes of prose. Today it has 5,052 bytes. Not quite a 5x expansion but it is clear that a lot of work has gone into the revision. AgneCheese/Wine 17:01, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much - I can add a few more sentences on the geology and mountains which should get it even closer to a true 5x. I was not sure about counting at all and appreicate your work on my behalf. The hook I thought of was DYK... that Larrys Creek in Lycoming County, Pennsylvania has 42 named tributaries in its watershed, including one named "Little Dog Run"?. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 17:15, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That would catch my attention. You normally don't think of something named a "creek" having so many tributaries. With 42, it would sound like a major river. AgneCheese/Wine 03:34, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again, it is a creek I am very fond of and which always manages to surprise me when I research it further than I have before. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Georgian wine

Hi Your Wineness. How are you? It is His Baldness here. Somebody just started Tsinandali wine but I don't know how correct it is. Perhaps you could give it a clean sometime thanks. Also remember to add those canadian wines!! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 11:08, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yikes! That does need some work. Admittedly Georgian wines are a weak area of mine but I'll give it a go. As for the Canadian wines, they're still on the to-do list, after I work my way through the remaining Top-importance wine articles that are still at start class. However, I will be visit several wine regions in British Columbia this summer (and hopefully Quebec/Niagara in the fall) so I should be able to get some pictures to go with those articles. :) AgneCheese/Wine 17:04, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Château Beau-Séjour-Bécot

Updated DYK query On 6 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Château Beau-Séjour-Bécot, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 11:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Updated DYK query On 7 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cocks & Féret, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Daniel Case (talk) 19:09, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of Berlin Wine Tastings

An article that you have been involved in editing, Berlin Wine Tastings, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Berlin Wine Tastings. Thank you. Nunquam Dormio (talk) 11:52, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stuart Pigott

Updated DYK query On 21 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Stuart Pigott, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 18:47, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mustum DYK

Updated DYK query On 23 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mustum, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Daniel Case (talk) 15:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Beaujolais

Thanks for your work on Beaujolais. However, there is one important issue still at hand. According to the GA criteria, direct quotations must be, cited directly after the punctuation each time they appear. One citation in a paragraph for two quotations (even if it's from the same source) doesn't cut it. Quotes are the only thing that always requires immediate attribution through a citation. If you want to include several quotes in a single sentence, one cite will do. But if you have multiple separate sentences each with a quote, you have to cite each sentence. It's not negotiable. VanTucky 18:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Van Tucky, I appreciate your time. But looking at the GA criteria, it says that (2b) "at minimum, provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons" which I have done. Every shred of information in that article is cited and attributable to an inline citation. I do not see "redundancy" as a characteristic of a good article which would be the case if the same cite is added to one line, followed by the next to two to three lines that are also sourced by the same footnote. As a compromise, I would be willing to add a "hidden text" pointing out that the source for the quote can be found on the next line. Would that be acceptable? AgneCheese/Wine 18:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]