User talk:Peter morrell: Difference between revisions

Articles I have created
Farndon, Nottinghamshire, Antiscience, Antireductionism, Harvey Warren Zorbaugh, Everett Stonequist, Louis Wirth, Professionalization, Frederic Thrasher, Jesse R. Pitts, John Weir, John Forbes, Eugène Galien-Laloue, Edouard Leon Cortes, Everett Hughes, Fiskerton, Nottinghamshire, Kelham, Hoveringham, East Stoke, Nottinghamshire, Society of the Sacred Mission, Thorpe, Nottinghamshire, Hockerton, Sibthorpe, Gonalston, Rolleston, Nottinghamshire, Cotham, Nottinghamshire, Scientific imperialism, Embourgeoisement, Affluentization, Fragmentalism

Articles I have contributed to
Arthur Berry, Seighford, Homeopathy, Samuel Hahnemann, Rupert Sheldrake, Ferdinand Toennies, Howard S. Becker, Robert E. Park, Charles Cooley, Georg Simmel, Radionics, Social exclusion, Marginalization, David Hockney, Kalachakra, Nihilism, Counterculture, Pseudoscience, Deviant behaviour, Scientism, Sierra Leone, Johannes Scotus Eriugena, Hippie, Rajneesh, Georges Sorel, River Manifold, Chicago school (sociology), Leonardo da Vinci, Graffiti, Banksy, Salvador Dalí, Harold MacMillan, Margaret Thatcher, Classical homeopathy, Mandala, Tim Marlow, John Berger, Ways of seeing, W. H. Auden, Peter Blake (artist), Augustus John, Gwen John, Camille Pissarro, Averham, Thurgarton, Gunthorpe, Nottinghamshire, Walter Hilton, Stoke Bardolph, Dylan Thomas, Elston, Bingham, Nottinghamshire, Allen Ginsberg, Stafford, East Bridgford, Kneeton, Buddha, Nidana, Bindu, Samatha meditation, Anapanasati, Jacob Epstein, Francis Bacon (painter), Dhyana, Brahmavihara, Paramita, Pierre-Auguste Renoir, Impressionism, Alexander Rosenberg, Marsha Thomason, Surrealism, Holism, Holism in science, The Fast Show, Simon Day, Quantification, Graffiti, John Howard (artist) Gordon Brown, Shakespearean authorship question, Talk:John Constable, Talk:Gordon Brown, Harold Wilson, Mary Wilson (poet), George Melly, Edward Shils, Arctic Monkeys, The Jam, Burslem School of Art, Robert Mugabe, Drug dynamization, Scientism, Phil Drabble, Kristin Scott Thomas, Don Arden, Licensure, Roy Strong, Biddulph Grange, Edward William Cooke, James Bateman, Packwood, Patti Boyd

/archive 1

• See User talk:Anthony Appleyard#Biddulph Grange. Anthony Appleyard 08:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• See User talk:Anthony Appleyard#Biddulph Grange. They are good images; but on uploading one of them a Wikipedia legal snag arose, including automatic speedy-delete-tagging. Please answer in Wikipedia:Media copyright questions#A legal snag with 6 new images. Anthony Appleyard 21:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• The images are great, thanks for offering to provide them. However, as the copyright holder you need to tell us specifically what people are allowed to do with the images. The best licenses for Wikipedia are this one and this one. Please can you have a look at the links and tell us if you're happy with them? I can take you through the upload process in three simple steps if you are willing to try again. Thanks Papa November 22:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I did not speedy-delete-tag the image :: the licence section in the image page came up with the speedy-delete tag already in. Anthony Appleyard 04:43, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please feel free to use these images as if they are your own property. The copyright is yours. cheers Peter morrell 06:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Original Barnstar
		I'm awarding you this barnstar for your help in rewriting the homeopathy article. It is now implemented and hopefully will improve even further in the near future. Great job! Wikidudeman (talk) 14:46, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		I'm awarding you this "Working" barnstar as well because you went the extra mile to help me rewrite the Homeopathy article. Wikidudeman (talk) 14:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Peter - I really hope you don't mind but, because I was getting a little lost among the various titles and subtitles, I took the liberty of moving the traditional material (yours and mine) to a sidebox under the main entry title ("Buddhism and intellectualism"). I didn't think you would mind -- very much hope you don't -- but I've never actually moved another person's material on a talk page, so I would deeply regret it if my doing so offends you in any way. If so, please revert or let me know and I will be happy to do so. I wish you the best, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 18:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Peter - sorry for my lack of clarity. If you go to Talk:Buddhism#Study_is_one_thing.3B_practice_is_very_much_another and scroll up several inches, you'll see it on the right one-third of the page, with the top-most header being "A Cup of Tea." I placed it there based on timestamps -- you had a text entry of 11:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC) and then the Zen account was timestamped 11:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC), so I thought it appropriate to put them beside each other. Again, I hope this is okay. If not, feel free to change it (of course) or let me know if you'd like me to do so. Thanks again. Best wishes, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 01:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Better yet, just go here: Talk:Buddhism#A_Cup_of_Tea. I've reinserted the sectional header tags to the headings for our traditional material. (I had originally removed them because I thought they were interfering with the sidebox's table tags, but, on second thought, I realize I was wrong.) I've made "A Cup of Tea" a subsection (that is, used "===" instead of "==") to signify that it is associated with the overall "Buddhism and intellectualism" thread; however, again, if this is against your intention or best reflection, please please please feel free to revert/undo/re-do any or all of it or instruct me to do so. Thanks again, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 02:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Peter, thanks for your kind and interesting note. FWIW, in terms of myself, like most I guess I started reading about Buddhism in a non-discriminating manner, especially enjoying the writing of Philip Kapleau, Robert Aiken, Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfield, Trunga Rinpoche, Lama Surya Das, D.T. Suzuki and Thich Nhat Hanh (to name some of those who immediately come to mind). My practice was Zen initially primarily becuase I found Kapleau's instructions in the Three Pillars of Zen to resonate most for me. I then occasionally participated in a Zen group in my area. Years later I moved and shopped around in my new location with an institutionalized Zen group, an informal vipassana/New Age group, an Order of Interbeing group, a Lama Surya Das group (with whom my wife is still affiliated), and finally settled down with a vipassana/Theravada group, while attending occasional retreats primarily by self-identified Theravadins (e.g., most memorably, a trip to Bhante G.'s Bhavana Society). So, for me, I guess it's primarily been a combination of geography, personality and access to resources (e.g., I find the Theravada canon to be so much more cohesive and more readily accessed from the Internet). Blah, blah, blah me. LOL. Thanks for all your excellent work -- both scholarly and interpersonally. With metta, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 18:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Peter,

Thanks for your message. Nice, that you wrote it.

Yes, maybe we should discuss it.

I reverted the Buddhism article back to your last version dated Sept. 15,
because it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to condone all the information loss.

There was a lot of work done on the version.

Was there any discussion to replace it?

Tashi delegs,

Victor Klimov 16:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Peter, that seems to be a good idea.

However, I do not feel sure that right now I could play a very active role

in such a discussion. Victor Klimov 17:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Hallo dear Peter. Thanks for your nice message. Yes, the Buddhism article is currently undergoing a reincarnation, it seems! I personally thought the earlier version (the one before Peter J. made massive changes) was pretty interesting and informative, given some subtractions and deletions and tweakings here and there, but I also think Peter J's version is a good basis for further work. The problem is that not too many editors are actively involved at the moment (and I myself will be very busy over the coming few days). I am interested to know, Peter, what you would like to see added to the entry - how you would like to see its focus or tone shifted, perhaps, or what extra material could be added, or whether we should not be so "nit-picking"? I am not being contrary here: I just am genuinely interested to see how you think we could improve things. Myself, I personally don't like calling Mahayana Buddhism "East Asian Buddhism" - but that discussion has been had and my side lost out! What do you feel about that and similar matters? Anyway, for what it's worth, I myself am happy to work with what Peter J. has provided. But perhaps you would prefer to revert back to the earlier version?? For me, both versions are acceptable, given improvements here and there. Thanks again for contacting me, Peter. I look forward to hearing more of your own views. Best regards. From Tony. TonyMPNS 10:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for the advice. There seems to be something in it.

I'll think about it. Victor Klimov 11:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Peter, is it not 3 reverts in one day, that are disallowed?
Victor Klimov 12:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He isn't qualified. Arrow740 22:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone with a degree, or who is recognized as an authority by people in authority. Arrow740 06:57, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Peter! The article is indeed completely messed up by anti-homeopathic sentiments which, although valid and need to be documented, have taken over the article and dominate. They give a seeker the wrong information due to WP:UNDUE. How to fix it? Well, I think the WP:GAR is a good start. I would work there to gain consensus with a group of uninvolved editors, and as I have not edited the article, and know a bit about the topic, that is what I think I should do. You could also start another page on your sandbox (if you do, let me know and all the others who want to contribute positively) and the article can be re-written and presented to the good reviewers as an alternative. All the best! docboat 00:42, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have said my piece. I expect reaction, but that is a homeopathic response. :) docboat 12:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I figure I'll chime in here as well to express my appreciation for your help in understanding Hahnemann's process. What makes this exercise slightly ridiculous for me is that I have used homeopathic remedies that work, so I'm only trying to figure out what sort of mental blockade is in place that prevents studies from being done to confirm what anyone can confirm for themselves. It's like saying that the sky is blue and people are refusing to look out the window. Whig 08:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide any reliable inline references you can for the article Professionalization. Many thanks! -- • • • Blue Pixel 02:15, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate and accept your offer of truce and collaboration. I apologize for the delay in responding to your message - I felt that it was best for me to stay out of the homeopathy debate for a while. I see that WDM has added the Benveniste material to the article. What's your opinion on how it stands now? Cheers, Skinwalker 22:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Peter, I've been wondering that since the edit warring on this article seems to be over, if it might have a chance of becoming a Featured Article. As you have put a lot of work into this article and you are one of the editors I can happily work with, I was wondering if you might be able to help with this process? Any thoughts on this would be welcome. Tim Vickers 23:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Peter, its great to work with calm editors like yourself in a constructive manner, without people running about shouting and reverting things every five minutes. Tim Vickers 20:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Tim, I agree. cheers Peter morrell 20:54, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The image bank is called Wikimedia Commons and one of the best ways of searching it is with [1]. All the best Tim Vickers 16:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In one word, "mischief"! Tim Vickers 16:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Peter, lost track of my talk page there. The site says "Mayflower is currently undergoing maintenance. It should be back in a few hours. We apologize for the inconvenience. -- Tangotango, Tue Oct 23 04:00:00 UTC 2007" at the moment, I suppose it will be fixed soon, but I don't know when. Tim Vickers 21:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Peter, Thanks for adding Dylan's art exhibition to the Bob Dylan article. I've taken the liberty of moving it to the 2000s section, because administrators have already criticised this article for having too many subsections. Another section for a 2 sentence summary seemed wrong, though the info & the references are fascinating. best wishes Mick gold 09:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Peter:

I didn't want to put this on the homeopathy talk page.

We were told an hour or two ago that the homeopathy article was back to GA status. We were just having an argument to celebrate. ;o)

Thank you for your input on that page. It is very difficult for Whig. He tries to maintain a neutral POV. Most other people regularly involved have made it known one way or another that they are anti-homeopathy. Because of this, any time the discussion hinges on POV, Whig is facing several others, most or all of whom are arguing against him. However, they are not necessarily arguing the same points. This makes it more difficult, confusing, and frustrating.

To me, it is unbelievable that someone could talk about "circular reasoning, and lack of knowledge about basic science" AND then claim it was NOT a personal attack.

(By the way, I also try to be neutral, but I'm a very minor player in this.) Cheers, Wanderer57 21:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Peter. I got your message. Wanderer57 05:19, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		For your always careful and excellent edits to Homeopathy Whig 16:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not thrilled with his recent behavior either. Go to his talk page and see. Just make sure that if you are going to gripe that you do it at the appropriate venue. I know it can be tedious and frustrating at times, but have some comfort in knowing that you are sharing this experience with others. :-) -- Levine2112 ^discuss 19:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your kind words. I think you have made a good job of the Wedgwood Institute article...it has the right flavour. There is still more to do on Burslem. --Alan 19:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Peter. Adam and I were discussing your article at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Antireductionism earlier today when I suggested the redirect. Per your edit summary, and from reading the respective articles, I'm not sure how antireductionism differs from holism. Would you come over and talk about it? Thanks! Skinwalker 16:12, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(copied from Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Antireductionism) Thanks for YOUR POV. If this is so then why was it Adam who made the action? however, in relation to the question, AR is really a suspicion on the part of many, esp in the social sciences, but also in portions of biology, that reductionism is too simplistic for adequately describing complex systems and processes and that it innately oversimplifies and thus distorts and misleads. Especially in ecology and weather systems for example. Such folks do not believe that reductionism inherently can generate the answers it promises: it can prove to be non-insightful. Holism by contrast believes that phenomena in general are best perceived as wholes rather than via analysis of parts. I agree these are close to each other but holism is probably the broader concept and I would say they are different precisely because both terms occur in academic discourse...which kind of justifies their separate inclusion here. Also I would say the AR article is much better than the other one which is very poorly ref'd and too generalised to be of much use. It looks like a rag bag mix of all sorts of odd stuff simply thrown together. I guess you will disagree. What attracts you to fringe theories as you like to call them? and why clean them up when embryogenesis and embryology cry out to be merged but I don't see you two banging on about that. BTW I am a zoologist by training so I disagree with your view of my understanding of what science is. If you do merge them then please merge them proper rather than deleting whole swathes of stuff. OK? cheers Peter morrell

Just wanted to follow up and make sure I understand the difference. As I now understand it, antireductionism is a term for a reaction to reductionism, whereas holism indicates a philosophy of viewing systems as a whole instead of as a collection of components. Holism may or may not be a reaction to a reductionist view, but antireductionism always is. Is this correct? For what it's worth, I agree partially with your opinion on the holism in science article. It needs some cleanup too - there's some uncited fluff in there about orthomolecular medicine, and this is such a broad topic that it may need splitting into holism in various specific disciplines (e.g. holism in physics, holism in ecology, etc). Cheers, Skinwalker 14:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure where you want my reply but here goes. Yes, you seem to have the broad thrust of it. Antireductionists may or may not optionally adopt a holistic approach; what they primarily see are the limitations of the hardline reductionist approach in certain situations, maybe not in all. Holists of course are also antireductionist but do take a holistic view in most if not all situations. One other point is that both take the view that the fragmentalist view science adopts to viewing phenomena (breaking the world into parts and mechanisms of parts) is limited and optional; it is seen merely as one method, rather than the method for gaining understanding about our world. Antireductionists would accept some reductionism some of the time while holists would prefer to gain knowledge through looking at wholes, not through what they regard as the 'illusory' parts. I hope this clarifies. I will try to improve the AR article further as time permits. I did promise to do that some months back but somehow it fell from view. thanks Peter morrell 17:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Peter, noting that you have edited Kelham, SSM, and various Buddhist articles - have you been to the Well at Willen? If not, you might like it. They have strong links with the Buddhists next door. Also, Alistair Mason's book is first rate, and I learned a lot about the CofE from reading about it from that perspective. BTW, it's good to know that more and more people like you are keeping an eye on the wiki for reliability.

-) Oliver Low 17:38, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Homeopathy is a contentious enough subject; there's no need to heat things up further with angry or insulting rhetoric. Comment (with specifics, as much as possible) on the content of article and edits; please refrain from attacking – or discussing, or speculating on – the motives of other editors. Comments like "what do you expect from an anti-homeopath?" or "puny and prejudicial editorial "skills" apology for misusing the word skills" are never going to be helpful in either resolving a dispute or in improving an article. Personalizing the dispute by mentioning Adam's ArbCom candidacy also is out of place.

You've been warned about (and blocked for) personal attacks before. If the incivility continues, I may have to employ longer blocks in the future. This is a final warning. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't particularly care what you think of Adam (or, really, any other person). I'm not the thought police. But you're going to work on the same articles, you're going to have to work together – or at least tolerate each other – and work within the standards of behaviour established by the community.

You're welcome to delete this warning from your talk page if you want to, but I expect you to adhere to WP:CIV from now on. No attacking Adam – or anyone else – over editorial disagreements. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]