Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football

Is anyone else seeing edits like this that are pushing the concept of "Schickeria"? I left it in the first time, but when it was added back in I realized that all of the sources are self-published and as such may not be particularly notable. Any comments? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:48, 5 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hello!

I am writing to about my edits in the article about Bayern München that you reverted (2011-12-05).

There is no doubt that the Schickeria München exists and its political positions are no secrets. Officially, the group describes itself as anti-racist and against "Modern football". The anti-racist stance can also be seen on numerous flags and banners and the group has participated in public demonstrations against the commcercialization of football. As a third party opinion, I would like to bring up Gabriel Kuhn, writer on the subject of football and politics. I met him during the Göteborg Book Fair and I intended to discuss the supporters of St Pauli with him, but instead he pointed at the Schickeria München as an example of the growing number of "progressive" ultra groups in Germany. He also did this in the interview that I posted as source. What concerns the "notability" of Schickeria München, I can not really say. ´What is notability in this sense? I do not know the exact answer to the question, but I think that the actions against Manuel Neuer (whether regarded as an act of sheer stupidity or as an legitimate protest against the clubs politics) and the fuss it created, the group does not pass entierly unnoted.

Best regards, Erik EriFr (talk) 21:23, 5 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I think the protests against Manuel Neuer were well covered in the press, but I don't recall any mention of this Schickeria group. If RSs can be found on the group itself it can stay, if they can't then it should be removed. Ilikeeatingwaffles (talk) 23:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-streit-um-manuel-neuer-splittergruppe-verletzt-den-artenschutz-1.1117564

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/0,1518,774417,00.html

They seem to be one the groups behind the protests, at least, they the are blamed for this (see the discussions at the Bayern forum).

/Erik — Preceding unsigned comment added by EriFr (talk • contribs) 07:17, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

User:Ulof4 has kindly invited me to be a part of a project in this country's football. All interested (in case it's still not been created that is!), please drop a line here. Cheers! --Vasco Amaral (talk) 15:23, 7 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I don't think there is enough editors who would be interested in Chile alone. Therefore, can we expand this idea to include all of South America? I dabble in with the Chilean league very now in then, but with the objective of keeping the format consistent with similarly structured leagues in the region. Digirami (talk) 13:38, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Fine with me man, i was just conveying what Ulof asked, maybe you could get in touch with him for further developments, my hands are "full" with SPA and POR football/ers. --Vasco Amaral (talk) 14:36, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hey guys I don't know much about copyright so do any of you know if this image can be uploaded. It is Celtics first home kit (from 1888). Adam4267 (talk) 20:37, 7 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

AFAIK, the copyright on that particular picture will have started from whenever the photo was taken, which appears to be 2008, even though the copyright on the design of the kit will have expired years ago. Unless the person who took the photo has specifically released it under a license suitable for Wikipedia (e.g. public domain, Creative Commons) we won't be able to use it. BigDom 14:38, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Could some experienced editor review the Styles of play and attributes section in Kevin-Prince Boateng. I have my doubts that it could inclue POV-ish info unconfirmed in sources, but User:MarkMysoe is acting like he owns this article, he does not allow to make any correction so I'm asking for your help.--Oleola (talk) 01:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Alternatively, you could take it to the article talk page. WT:FOOTY is not supposed to be the first place for every single dispute resolution; it's busy enough as it is. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

It is hyperbolic but it will do.--EchetusXe 10:36, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I've tagged the article for copy edit as the whole tone is overblown and riddled with poor syntax etc. The worst example is " He also promised to Milan when he has 100% security that Milan signed him he will have a tattoo of A.C. Milan . . .". -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 08:34, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Further proof that engaging in politics is not good for your mental health: former Poland international Jan Tomaszewski, now a politician, has said he will NOT support the team in the upcoming UEFA Euro 2012, deeming it "utter rubbish" over the naturalization of players - he has previously insulted newcomer Damien Perquis (see here http://www.kickoff.com/european-league/36729/perquis-tackles-tomaszewski-over-trash-tirade.php).

Now, who has he said he will support in the tournament? Germany (with this guy, and this guy and this guy)!! Okeydokey (here's the ref for the "rubbish" remark and his "German solidarity act", could only find it in this language, "basura" is "rubbish" or "trash" in Spanish http://www.marca.com/2011/12/07/futbol/futbol_internacional/1323266354.html). Attentively - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 13:14, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

What a nice man.--EchetusXe 16:33, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I just love when people don´t make any sense, as Tomaszewski just did in that case... FkpCascais (talk) 19:42, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hiya, could someone else have a look at Talk:Kenny McLean/GA1. I think the article meets the requirements of a GA, but I am concerned about its neutrality. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 13:39, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Could someone please take a look at this. Adam4267 (talk) 21:50, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hi, bit of an odd request, but can't find a specific forum for this so thought I'd ask here. Could anyone that has access to something like photoshop crop File:1973 uefa cup final.jpg for me please as its too big and there is white space around the actual image, so when its put in an infobox you can see the white space instead of just the picture (see the diffs in here to see what I mean). This would be greatly appreciated, cheers. NapHit (talk) 13:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

In addition to the ones set out in the main drive, I'll be happy to award a barnstar of diligence to anyone completing five reviews from the Sports section of WP:GAN and who posts back here! Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 13:57, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I reviewed Ben May, Phil Edwards, Alan Julian, Jennison Myrie-Williams, and Chris Beardsley in September, does that count? :D --EchetusXe 16:44, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

No, but you can have a WikiCookie on me! Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 16:48, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Football articles not already under review are: Fraizer Campbell, Scott Laird, Chris Holroyd, and 1973 UEFA Cup Final.--EchetusXe 18:46, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Eden Hazard. Adam4267 (talk) 22:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Ryan Crowther, Willie Irvine.--EchetusXe 11:36, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this before, but in their infinite wisdom the Premier League have recently "redesigned" their website. What this means for us is that most links to premierleague.com now either redirect to the front page of the site or the front page of the relevant section (e.g. for news items), or, in the case of player profiles, are just 404. Hope this helps :-) cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:41, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Not long after I added a reference to our most recent signing for his height, this happens and I don't think he even has one on the redesigned website because he hasn't featured in a Premier League game. Surely it wouldn't be hard for them to have the original URLs redirect the user to the new page. It wreaks of laziness. The FA have done the same with their site this year. Lots of player pages don't work any more and, for the ones that do, they've taken away the statistics table – which was handy for my FL efforts. Argyle 4 Life^talk 19:26, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

You might find it annoying, but it hardly reeks of laziness on their part. Why would the Premier League care if it compromised Wikipedia referencing?  Omg †  osh  19:34, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Why indeed? But you'd think they might care about not making it difficult for people to use their website. It's pretty standard procedure when restructuring a website to redirect URLs, at least on a temporary basis, to avoid irritating the users. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 19:46, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

If I provided a service that is regularly used and then decided to move it all, I would ensure that old URLs all redirect to the right place. To their credit, articles on the BBC that are more than a decade old still work despite the numerous changes they've made over the years. As you pointed out, I'm sure that a multi-billion pound corporation like the Premier League couldn't care less. We'll just have to alter them manually as and when we find them, just like when UEFA changed their website. Fantastic. Argyle 4 Life^talk 20:00, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Permalinks are supposed to be permanent. There is simply no excuse for any major website to have a redesign which breaks links to content unless they've actually removed it. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:11, 14 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hi!

Me and a couple of other editors over at the Sweden task force have been discussing the issue of how club names should be displayed in statistics and league tables on WP in the fb team template. One editor proposes that the full club name should be featured with abbreviations such as IF and FF (Swedish forms for FC ect.) while I believe that simply the common name for the club as long as its not easily confused with another club should be featured. For example, IF Elfsborg with the abbrevation "IF" or simply the common name Elfsborg. As of now, if we look at 2012 Allsvenskan for example, the system I am defending is used, 6 clubs in the league table feature their abbreviations so as to seperate them from teams with a simular name, for example, Malmö FF can't be written as simply Malmö since the club played in the same league as IFK Malmö for a number of seasons. The other 10 clubs in the league table have been shortened in the templates, removing the abbrevations, in a fashion that I see as praxis on the rest of WP. Does anyone know if there are any clear guidelines on this? Thanks! See this for the discussion. --Reckless182 (talk) 10:57, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

An argument for including abbreviations for every Swedish club is, in short, that they are much more closely connected to the name of the club than they are in most other leagues, almost as if they are the equivalent of "City", "United", "Town", "Wanderers", "Wednesday", "Athletic" in the English leagues (or "Dynamo", "Torpedo", "Spartak", "Energiya" and so on in the Russian leagues), rather than the equivalent of "F.C." (which is used by some 95 % (?) of the clubs in those leagues). In Sweden, many clubs and their supporters see these abbreviations (IF, IK, FF, SK, BoIS, GIF, BK, BoIK, FK, GoIF, AIK, AIF, IFK, IS, ...) as an integral part of the name, for my own club IFK Göteborg, it should never ever be referred to as just Göteborg (or Gothenburg). There are usually several clubs using the same "name" (city names such as Göteborg, Malmö or Halmstad, districts/residential areas/... such as Djurgården, Norrmalm or Krokslätt or even non-geographical names such as Sleipner, Drott or Göta) only with different abbreviations.

I do not agree with Reckless182 that there exsists a praxis on the rest of WP, just looking around at the various league tables of Europe, several leagues are using abbreviations in full or partially. However I am not looking to change the standard for all leagues to one single standard, as I believe that each country has its own traditions and customs (and that each country standard is best decided by those that know these traditions and customs), I would just like the naming to be reasonably consistent within the league tables. – Elisson • T • C • 14:30, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

In my defence. There are several Swedish clubs that are much more commonly referred to without their abbreviations. Just a couple examples, Elfsborg, Gefle, Häcken, Mjällby, Djurgården, Åtvidaberg, Öster, Degerfors, Brommapojkarna, Hammarby, Brage, Jönköpings Södra, Qviding and Örgryte. These are just a couple of examples of club that one wouldn't refer to with their full name in common speech. I don't agree that the abbreviations are equivalents of "City", "United" etc. IF and FF are simply abbrevations much like FC and SC which are not featured in other league tables. I don't believe Sweden is unique in this fashion. Consistency should be maintained across WP, therefore we shouldn't change the templates. --Reckless182 (talk) 17:18, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

As pointed out in the task force discussion, this is not about prose or common speech. I would also like to point out that many of the clubs you mention are often referred to with the abbreviation and the name itself shortened, such as DIF, ÅFF, and ÖIS. Also as pointed out in the task force discussion, there is no consistency across WP today, so that really isn't an argument to keep it as it is. – Elisson • T • C • 18:33, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I would like to argue for the fact that there is consistency across WP in the use of the system I proposed, to shorten the name in the template but to feature in abbreviations in cases where there is more than one club with that name. A majority of league tables on WP are like Sweden's with a mix of full club names and some with abbreviations as to avoid confusion. Others feature tables with only shorted names and no abbreviations like Italy's Serie A. But as a matter of fact, I can't find any league table to feature the system that you are proposing with only the full club names. I'm unable to see what makes Sweden any different to any other country in this matter? Sweden's use of abbreviations in the club names or in the statistics is no different from any country, why should it be any different on WP? Personally I don't see any problems at all with the current system. --Reckless182 (talk) 21:34, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

No one has yet presented what the English-language sources say. RSSSF use the letters after/before the club names, whilst Soccerway tend to only use the letters where there are different teams from one town. Eldumpo (talk) 09:38, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

This is not an easy issue to address so I refer below to the way that the key organisations/sources that I am familiar with present club names.

Some abbreviations used (Elfsborg, Gefle, Häcken, Mjällby etc)

Svenska Fans - [svenskafans.com]
Soccerway - [soccerway.com]
SvFF - Swedish Football Association - [svenskfotboll.se] (Djurgården and Örebro)

Full club name used (with abbreviations such as IF and FF)

SvFF - Swedish Football Association - [svenskfotboll.se]
Everysport - [everysport.com]
GAIS - [gais.se]
RSSSF, Clas Glenning - Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation - [rsssf.com]
SFS Bolletinen - Swedish Football Statistics - [bolletinen.se] [follow the [Allsvenskan] link and click the Valj läg box].
Claudio Nicoletti's site on European soccer statistics for clubs - [webalice.it/claudionicoletti1/]

The information above may help the decision-making process. It would appear that there are more organisations/sources (of significance) using the full club name but I am sure that my survey is not complete and there must be other organisations to consider. Finnish Gas (Finnish Gas 18:18, 11 December 2011 (UTC)).Reply

Just a note with regards to the above comment and SoccerWay. Having spoke to one of the main content guys over there, they use the same naming convention for all the clubs in the world, that is, they use the short name of the club unless it comes into conflict with another club. For example, IF Elfsborg is Elfsborg, but if there was another Elfsborg, say FF Elfsborg, then they would be both listed with their full names to avoid confusion. With that said, I don't think the website should be considered in making a decision in this particular case. TonyStarks (talk) 02:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

There are a few other points that I would like to make:

1. Most (but not quite all) of the Allsvenskan league tables showed the full club name until a few weeks ago.

2. With regard to consistency on WP, the case is made by Reckless182 that league tables that feature only full club names may not exist in other countries. However, in English league tables only the "F.C." is removed.

3. If the Premier League was amended using abbreviations (as shown in the league table in today's The Times) we would see for example:

- Tottenham (not Tottenham Hotspur)

- Newcastle (not Newcastle United)

- Stoke (not Stoke City)

- Norwich (not Norwich City)

- Swansea (not Swansea City)

- QPR (not Queens Park Rangers)

- West Brom (not West Bromwich Albion)

- Wolves (not Wolverhampton Wanderers)

- Wigan (not Wigan Athletic)

- Blackburn (not Blackburn Rovers)

- Bolton (not Bolton Wanderers)

If we retain the Swedish Fb team templates in their current format should we amend the Premier League on WP to accord with the format for the Allsvenskan?

4. The work recently undertaken on the Swedish Fb league tables looks superb in comparison with the previous format. It would not take long to reformat the Fb league tables to show the full club names again. Finnish Gas (Finnish Gas 09:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)).Reply

Please pay attention at the last paragraph in his CLUB CAREER section, in order to reach a conclusion on whether this is a BLP violation or not (methinks not, as it stands presently): first, a Dutch user inserted the situation, but with VERY biased language (i.e. "set a new low for sportsmanship" or the sorts, etc) and with only a video as ref. I reverted him, he reverted me.

Afterwards - and after apologizing to him for YET ANOTHER heated summary - i reinstated the section, but with toned-down language and a different set of sources. A week later, voilá! Sentence and refs removed by Spanish anon user (editing from Seville, we can assume he's not a fan of this team). Where does it stand in your opinion, is it valid or not (i think so, as Navarro is not insulted or made fun of, only what happened is reported)?

Attentively - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 16:01, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

That red card doesn't seem notable anyway. Doesn't sound dramatic in the espn reference. -Koppapa (talk) 16:57, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Without a clear, explicit reference for exactly "Navarro blatantly asked for a red card to Aduriz", it's a BLP violation. I'm sure your Spanish is better than mine, but I can't see that in the report from El País. It seems to talk about Navarro getting involved in the sending-off, but not in clear detail: please correct me if I'm wrong. With an explicit reliable source, it's acceptable, but not very interesting: if it had been so very dreadful, surely it'd be easy to find sources, and without them, it doesn't belong on WP at all.

On another note, in the sentence "after opponent Aritz Aduriz stepped on Emir Spahić in the 70th minute, the Bosnian's reaction was apparently exaggerated", it might be an idea to change "the Bosnian" to Spahić, both for clarity and to avoid an apparently gratuitous reference to the nationality of the exaggerating player. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:20, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

• I will do the asked story changes. Speaking of the "blatant" bit, that's where the video "proof" could come in handy, he DID BLATANTLY ask for a red card, i saw the footage, like Nelson Muntz pointing to people and going "ah ah", Navarro was going "send him off" (see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdJ0PQlBVmc); how can we rephrase it (keeping in mind the whole section is not eventually removed)? --Vasco Amaral (talk) 17:59, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

So that happens every day in some match. Fail to see why it is important to him? Why is there a "however" in the sentence, this had nothing to do with his contract, right? Or did he get fired? -Koppapa (talk) 18:30, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

"However" removed :) The paragraph is there, in my opinion, to show the lack of sportsmanship (all the players in all the leagues ask for their peers to be booked, but this was highly exaggerated and unsporting - is that how you say it, "unsporting"?) --Vasco Amaral (talk) 18:39, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Isn't there some official FIFA record for World Cup qualifiers from 1998 and earlier somewhere on the Internet? Reports from various websites have been cited in our articles, and here's just a random match I found weird: Bulgaria vs Luxembourg, 1998 qualification. The minutes of the four goals are given as 43' (p), 45', 50' (p), 81' in the Wikipedia article, which can't be true because I watched the game back then and certainly remember that the halftime score was 1–0, sealed with a late penalty by Stoichkov. The source on its part gives the four minutes completely different: 41', 47', 49', 70', and does not say anything about the penalties. And that one is just one of the many matches. Isn't there something better to cite? --Theurgist (talk) 18:26, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

WP:VNT says change it, unless you can find a more reliable reference. While those numbers could be OK for a 1-0 HT scoreline (some sources give the "clock time" for goals, so a goal scored in the first 20 seconds of second half could be listed as 45') they do not match the scores of the listed match report so I have changed them to match.--ClubOranje^T 22:51, 9 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I've checked in Persson, Gunnar, ed. (1998). Årets fotboll 1998. Stockholm: Strömbergs/Brunnhages., the standard authoritative (published in cooperation with the Swedish FA) Swedish football yearbook (that covers more than just Swedish football). It gives the goal scoring minutes as 44', 47', 49' (p), 81' (no penalty marked for the 44' goal by Stoichkov). This doesn't really clear things up that much, but at least it's a reputable source... – Elisson • T • C • 00:28, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

[1], a very good source for me, gives the same minutes, except 47 instead of 45 (clearly an error). 109.173.212.187 (talk) 13:45, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

And it does give both penalties too. Great, I'll replace the current source with this one. I was having a vague reminiscence that the minute of Stoichkov's opener was 43' exactly, but that wasn't something I was absolutely sure about. Thanks all. --Theurgist (talk) 19:05, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Just a quickie regarding the stats table on Steve Kean. There is presently a note underneath the table stating that it includes Premier League games only. But should this be the case? I don't think I've seen any other tables in managers' articles that account for league games only. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 01:29, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I agree - as far as I can see, the norm is that the table should include all first-team matches and should tie up to a reliable source such as Soccerbase. As the Soccerbase stats don't show the league and cup matches separately, the table in the article must include a degree of Original Research. I have corrected the table in the article, and have invited User:RoverTheBendInSussex, who insists that cup games don't count, to contribute to this discussion. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:50, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Seconded, it should be all game he is manager for - after all, that is what Soccerbase, normally used as a source for manager games, includes. GiantSnowman 11:34, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

As I don't wish to get involved in a edit war, can someone else take a look at this article. There are now two stats tables; one of all matches and one of league only. User:RoverTheBendInSussex justifies the inclusion of the latter with the edit summary: "There is a need for the second table. It is very relivant(sic) to the current climate at Blackburn Rovers." so I guess he wants Kean out. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:13, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Table removed, I've also had a word with the editor in question. GiantSnowman 16:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

User refuses to listen & continues to revert, what should be our next move? GiantSnowman 16:51, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Theoretically it would be WP:ANEW if it continues. That said, Daemonic Kangaroo has merged the tables, which presumably means he supports keeping the content. Given the explicit agenda behind the PL-only stats, and the lack of a direct reference, I'd remove them again, but it's not so urgent that it can't be left for a few days to see if your talk page comment gets any replies. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:19, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I don't really support having two tables, but I didn't have the stomach for a fight with someone who made it quite clear that he was not going to listen to reason. Unfortunately, I've been in bed with (man)flu, so I'm not thinking very straight. I will go along with the consensus. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:52, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I favour one table with every match, not one table split in two, and certainly not two tables. I suggest we try & come up with consensus on the article talk page, so that we can then implement it.GiantSnowman 10:23, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Can I suggest that you copy the content from here and our various talk pages into the talk page for Kean and we take it from there? -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 10:37, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I'll copy this discussion, but won't touch individual's talk pages, my own included. I don't think there's anything useful there. GiantSnowman 11:39, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

On reviewing the Steve Kean article, I also looked the one for Sam Allardyce. I am rather confused with regard to his spell as caretaker-manager at Preston North End which seems to have been from Les Chapman's dismissal on 29 September 1992 and the appointment of John Beck on 1 December 1992. (see Soccerbase for dates). This period is not listed in the infobox on the Allardyce article, nor is he mentioned on the PNE managers template nor is he categorised as a PNE manager. Likewise, he is not included on the List of Preston North End F.C. managers, although other caretaker managers are. The statistics table in the article says that he managed the team for 12 matches, although these are not credited to Allardyce by Soccerbase, so it's not clear where these stats were sourced from. What should be done? -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 07:25, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

The list of Preston managers omits several caretakers apart from Allardyce, if you look at this list on their website. I think with that and other RS e.g. Independent report of Chapman leaving, LEP feature that says board preferred Beck to Allardyce, for Allardyce being caretaker for the whole period between Chapman and Beck, and Soccerbase having a clear 12-game gap between the two, it wouldn't be original research to allocate those 12 games to Allardyce. Makes a pleasant change for Soccerbase to get the dates right and leave a gap between: perhaps they are gradually improving their site. His time as caretaker should go in his infobox, and he should be categorised as a PNE manager. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:39, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure if this is the right place to bring this up - if not, could someone point me in the right direction? To date, 1179 players have appeared for the England national team (see list), but there are 1182 (excluding lists) articles in Category:England international footballers. Is it possible to do a search to identify articles that have been added to the category between certain dates? If not, does anyone know of a quick way to identify the 3 "rogue" articles other than laboriously checking the list against the category? -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 08:19, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

 YSorted - there were three user pages (all duplicates of the Michael Owen page) with categories added. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 09:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Cheering things up this weekend, I just want to share with you all my latest discouvery at footy articles. I know that transponding cheering songs into encyclopedic articles may be a challenge, but just check out this one: KS_Skënderbeu_Korçë#K.F._Sk.C3.ABnderbeu_Kor.C3.A7.C3.AB_official_anthem. OOOOOEEEEE OOOOOEEEEE Wikipedia ALLLEEEEEE!!!! FkpCascais (talk) 21:25, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

And to be fully in spyrith, don´t forget you have to repeat it 8x, as indicated at bottom. FkpCascais (talk) 21:29, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I hate to be a party pooper but I've removed it. GiantSnowman 21:44, 10 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

hi, I think we must add the word "International" in the title of this templates, maybe not in the link but the title must be more clear to ban insidenationals friendlies games, like the Desert Diamond Cup or summer frienlies between River and Boca in argentina, and expand the 2012 with more internationals friedlies. We have the Template:International club football and those template share some poits that must be easy to read at first view--Feroang (talk) 21:41, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

You are right. Perhaps "International friendly association football tournaments"? FkpCascais (talk) 21:56, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I really don't see the point of these templates. There's hundreds of "friendly tournaments" every single year, do they really relate to each other in anyway other than being tournaments? If it were up to me, I'd actually propose to delete them .. and sorry if my response has nothing to do with the request in the original message! TonyStarks (talk) 03:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I agree with Tony, what's the actual use of these templates? I'd advise taking to WP:TFD. GiantSnowman 09:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

As you did here.... The use is navigation, which is pretty much the same reason some contributors give for keeping various squad templates as long as they have half a dozen blue links. And before someone mentions that the 2012 one only has 2 links, I suggest referring back there.... --ClubOranje^T 10:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Well is there really need for one template every year? Why not simply put it in a template current friendly tournaments, and former ones. -Koppapa (talk) 12:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

One template, per decade, organised by year? Get rid of the flags, location + dates, and just have the tournamrnt title. GiantSnowman 12:26, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

In response to ClubOranje, squad templates make sense, it's a team and the players that make up that team. There's a real link between the players. Friendly tournaments do not relate to each other .. in my opinion anyway. I don't see what a friendly tournament in Iran has to do with another friendly tournament in Chile with another in Canada, all featuring different teams. Also, what's the scope of this template? Are we talking about any friendly tournament? There's hundreds every season, do we really need to add them all to a template? Will people really use it for navigation? And sorry if I sound negative, it's nothing personal, I just don't see the point of them. TonyStarks (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I don't like these templates at all, but if we're going to have articles on the individual tournaments, they're the lesser of the evils. Better to have a slightly pointless template, than to not have remotely prominent links to these articles anywhere, or giving them undue prominence by editing links into articles that probably shouldn't mention them at all. Worse still, some bright spark might decide to create some sort of crufty, two column list for them. —WFC— 22:46, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I've discovered that the infoboxes at certain articles on national teams that are unaffiliated to FIFA or to any of the continental confederations, and have always been so, specify FIFA trigrammes for those teams which are not mentioned anywhere at List of FIFA country codes. Those include: Monaco, Vatican City, Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Mayotte, Kiribati, Nauru, Wallis and Futuna, and possibly some others that I've overlooked. How did we get to know those country codes and why aren't they in the main list? --Theurgist (talk) 23:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

By the way, does anyone know why the Central African Republic team had its trigramme "CAF" replaced with "CTA" when the country has changed neither its name nor its borders? --Theurgist (talk) 00:11, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

For the former, I'd imagine the answer is our old friend mister Original Research. For the latter, the most likely explanation is that FIFA would rather not have an African nation share its trigram with the African federation. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 09:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

This discussion took place nearly 5 years ago on the relevant talk page, and it's still there. Not sure why it is raised here now. Kevin McE (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

The talk page Kevin refers to is here. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:59, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Here is the version before the section was last deleted. And here are some more of those codes, although that mentions no such thing as "Antarctica national team". I'm going to remove the codes from those eight articles. With the exception of Kiribati, all those teams maintain neither full nor provisional membership to any confederation, and unless it gets confirmed that their trigrammes are of a value extending beyond their serving as provisional codes employed for occasional purposes, their presence in the infoboxes wouldn't make much sense. By contrast, the CAF/CTA distinction makes perfect sense to me. --Theurgist (talk) 12:46, 14 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

This is a NAME/NICKNAME compound, thus wrong in my opinion. However, there is already an article called Romaric, should we consider moving the footballer's page to "Christian Kofi Ndri" - his REAL name - "Romaric (footballer)" or leave it as it is?

Attentively - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 02:22, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

In accordance with WP:Common name, I would move it to Romaric (footballer). -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 04:49, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

With a redirect to Koffi Ndri Romaric? Erikeltic ^(Talk) 04:54, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I support the move to Romaric (footballer), and of course redirect should be there. This is similar to a move that I requested few months ago: Thiago Emiliano da Silva to Thiago Silva (footballer). — MT (talk) 05:07, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Move completed. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:57, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Never heard of Romaric before, so wanted to take a look at RCD Espanyol's team, but for some reason I can only see the coach's name on the template. See here: Template:RCD Espanyol squad. What's up there? Jared Preston (talk) 14:24, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Now fixed (I hope!) -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 14:46, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Nice work guys! Apparently JARED, something's afoot as well in Template:Málaga CF squad... --Vasco Amaral (talk) 15:04, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Is it just me, or is everyone experiencing the same problem all the current squad templates are only displaying the manager. What’s going on? ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 14:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Check the edit history of {{Football squad2 player}} - looks like WOSlinker (talk · contribs) and Thumperward (talk · contribs) have been playing about. I'll direct them here. GiantSnowman 14:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Reverted for now until the requestee figures out what went wrong (an odd bug by the looks of things). While we're at it, though, it looks like {{football squad2 start}} has finally been orphaned, so it's time that it and the other bits of associated code are deleted. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:46, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

There still seems to be a problem. On the {{Template:RCD Espanyol squad}} I deleted the {{Squad maintenance|update source= }} template, which cured the problem, but that doesn't seem relevant to any of the others. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 14:51, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

You seem to have fixed it now - I had to purge each page to clear the cache to see the correct template. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 14:55, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Definately still a problem, see Wayne Rooney for example. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 15:02, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

This appears to be caused by the {{Squad maintenance}} template included in some current squad templates. If this is removed, both the Manchester United and Málaga CF templates are OK. I haven't touched these club templates, as there is presumably a deeper cause. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 15:13, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Both those templates - with the squad maintenance intact - appears fine to me. The problem was with edits made to {{Football squad2 player}}, which Chris reverted. GiantSnowman 15:16, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Something odd is going on, as 5 minutes ago, they were both screwed up, but are now both fine. Perhaps my flu bug has got into my PC! --- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 15:19, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

It seems to be fixed now, can't find any errors ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 16:38, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I think {{Football box}} could do with an option for a key. We football fans may instinctively know that the arrows and numbers mean substitutions and times, but unfamiliar readers may not. The trouble is, with a template that complicated, I have no idea how to add it. Any template experts on hand to help? Oldelpaso (talk) 19:13, 14 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

If an admin reads this would they mind protecting the Neil Etheridge article? He's making his debut for Fulham tonight and the page is taking an absoluting battering from IPs. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 20:31, 14 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Seriously needs to be done, there's even been discussion on the BBC website about how he managed to get 328 caps for the Philippines national team... [2] DeMoN2009 20:41, 14 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

User:Antony1821 has been busy over the last couple of days uploading pictures of players, mostly from Olympiacos. [3] He added a couple to articles that I watch, which I've tagged as being a likely copyvio. Given this user's history (warned multiple times by myself and others in the past for inappropriate editing) and the quality of the images, I'd say they all need to go and a block needs to be made. Is there a quick way to get rid of all these copyrighted images? Argyle 4 Life^talk 20:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)Reply